Pounding Sand. I am proudly a guest on @vapemestoopid!


Kevin and I got to talking a embrace days ago and we came up through this crazy confusing idea because we were the one and the other thinking about blogging on pretty a great quantity the same things. Instead of us both blogging on our respective sites, I asked Kevin admitting that he’d like to do a dual blog station with me. He writes his in the first stages blog and I respond with my 2 cents. You extremity up with 2 small time advocates views and opinions without ceasing pretty much the same subjects, further it’s a dialogue and not honest one sided. My responses will be in purple and bold.

Kevin: A couple weeks ago, there was a vaping encounter one another in New Jersey. If you’re study of books this, you probably already know in that place was no vaping allowed.

VMS: I am di~atory completely baffled as to why anyone would dispose an event in a state with a public vaping ban. It makes nay sense whatsoever!

Kevin: I’m a non-scientific kind of guy. I had a back & abroad on a thought months ago with another person I respect via email –  We, I don’t remember who “thought” of it, otherwise than that we were discussing what else we could DO to be useful to our cause. That conversation turned to me attending a vape befitting, and one of us said – the sort of a great place to monitor the common ~!

A vape meet would be the PERFECT attribute. Stick some monitors up on booths. Put some on the entry/exit signs. Don’t just tell anyone. Just do it, lets get out what’s in the conduct, good or bad. By good or heavy, I mean GOOD or BAD.

VMS: I over thought this was a great form and I still do. Just like then Dr. Farsalinos tested e-liquid because diacetyl content the results were largely NOT in our favour at the same time that a community or an industry. I distil find it upsetting that this complaint, up until recently, has been ignored through some of our leading e-clear manufacturers. It took Five Pawns root outed by Cloud 9 for their diacetyl and AP levels to prepare companies to start making a vary. Why the delay when we be under the necessity had clear NEGATIVE evidence that this point to be solved existed? 

Kevin: Well, with the Jersey thing this weekend, someone steady a facebook group said something relating to the Health Department missing a sublime opportunity to do just that. I agreed. It went to chirping, I tagged Carl Phillips, Chief Scientific Officer at CASAA
whither I was told:
Well, maybe it’s me, ~-end that seemed condescending. Again, I’m not a scientist, greater amount of of a lover of vape. I intentionally don’t paucity to find out it violates OSHA standards, I straits to find out that it doesn’t. Come down to my level a moment.

That felt at a elementary GlANTZ that I was being told to im~ sand – aaand I digress. I played simple, but don’t understand.

But there’s this, *Carl from you in June *I’m a stupendous fan!) :


VMS: Carl is a herculean one. The limited communication I have had with him through twitter has ever been swift and to the moment. At times, it felt harsh. I’m not trustworthy if this is just down to it heart social media and an inability to transfer emotion through 140 characters or conscientious the way it comes across. No substance, really. Carl is a great asset to the spring.
Back to Farsalinos diacetyl study. I am prepared to take . negative results. Results that can constitute a positive change. If we meet with out that the air quality at wide events like this is really poor for us, then that only serves for us to improve the way we bearing these events. If we are going to solemnize claiming that our vaper in insignificant quantity is harmless to bystanders and ourselves, in consequence we should know what it is doing to us and bystanders up~ the body a larger scale.

Kevin: On Facebook, it was handled a jot differently.


Kevin: For better or worse, wherefore HASN’T it been done? Why NOT? I’m subdue, even after the few paragraphs you’ve understand, not a scientist. Let say public in Sunny California, there was, or desire be a meet. Someone REALLY wants to produce this on the anti-vaping espouse a cause of our lives. THEY get the information and plaster it all over the recent accounts on the worst possible outcomes. Yes… and we’re session ducks. Trying to chase the fact down between their propaganda and lies like the sagacious familiar formaldehyde stupidity.

VMS: So maybe an air test at a vape come up to face to face isn’t a great idea but a large indoor air study IS. Let’s console companies to put money towards a controlled abundant scale indoor air study then? We distinguish how quick some of them are to food campaigns like #NotBlowingSmoke, so maybe we be able to get them to support some greater quantity research too? My biggest concern is that someone like Glantz who has the wealth available to him, will get this carried on before WE do. We all apprehend how people like him would draw out the data and the nano-particles. Why can’t we subsist on the offensive for once in this adventure?

Kevin: How the valuable funds were attained to debunk the formaldehyde frighten are beyond me. Time and coin . So, it leads ME to rely upon we should proactively take any reasonable suggestion – *I thought it was a perceptible thought* – and go with it to be delivered of it in OUR hands. Both since the vaper and anyone else.  Proactively. That’s my contemplation.

This study found on Vape About It concludes:
“…new study published in the Dec. 2014 egress of Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology rest conclusive data that the vapor emitted from e-cigs and corporal vapor devices is non-toxic. In other tongues, vaping is safe.”

They bring about this at ice rinks.
They cheat this at indoor motor-cross events.

Among other things, whether it is already deemed “safe” and the second/third hand studies were also debunked, wherefore NOT go all out at a vape collect, or at least a good Saturday afternoon at a comprehensive scale Brick & Mortar? Why NOT?

VMS: I don’t examine a good enough reason why not. “Handing the ANTZ” powder and shot isn’t a good enough exculpate anymore. If we don’t equipment and combat it before they carry on, then they surely have all the military stores they need. “They had the opportunity to test it, but all they care hind part before is getting you addicted to nicotine and not encircling the safety of the product.” We already have this fight on our hands. It doesn’t quantity what move we make as all a~ as we are always on the defensive. I desire the utmost respect for Carl and Greg the pair, but I simply don’t agree with inhumation our heads in the sand. As a vaper and a consumer that supports AVA and CASAA, I was disappointed ~ the agency of both of their responses, but be possible to also understand where they are advent from. I do think that this is somebody that needs further discussion by the “heads” of our community though and should not be ignored or passed opposite to as being another silly idea.

Kevin: It probably has been done and there was none conclusive evidence to it being “bad”… or they’d be obliged pounded us with it, or it indeed hasn’t been done to a “vape adapted arena scale”.

SO, why NOT? Well, on the supposition that arenas are too big why not hoax it at a weekend full vape store. Lets put it to the proof. Lets FIND out what is in it. Anyone lection this who’s in the environmental theatre of war got an idea as to to what degree?

So, what are we hiding? If it hasn’t been completed by us, shame on us. If it’s been finished by “Glantz” or some other anti, they’d be ALL over it if it were rascally. Just like the “aiming at children” packaging, insignificant person wants to bring THAT up until recently. Sadly, it’s been inner reality brought up for some time. Why not memorize ahead of it? Why WAIT to the time when we’re sideswiped by a swollen ANTZ truck full of what they WANT to narrate us. If we’re not LEADING this activity in research, we’re all pounding sand.

VMS: Again, I have to agree hither. We need to be on the round body and get on the offensive. No given conditions is bad data, bad data is saddening data, but GOOD data even suppose that it has BAD results, can subsist improved upon. Also, to be unspotted, I don’t think the common is really hiding anything, I esteem some of us are just to a greater degree reluctant in wanting to KNOW. Does that travel over sense?

Kevin: I do “the kind of I can” to support and patron. Sometimes I’m spot on, sometimes I’m out of line.
I DO the kind of I can. I don’t like abeyance, I like action. I don’t like substance told to shut up. I don’t like heart told “don’t talk over that”. I don’t like being suppressed. This is TOO frigging significant.

VMS: I had an entire blog written up and dedicated to this subject. The “slight advocates” compared to the big advocates. I haven’t published it over and above because it’s mostly me getting really frustrated and angry.

Lately though, I have seen too many “that’s silly” “we can’t observe that” “don’t do that” “been there done that it didn’t work” “why didn’t you run this out of the reach of me first” and the one I bear malice to the most, “let us deal with it”.

I have watched every time people, those working as a cast off or a stay at home mom, who be missed to get involved in advocacy, who are afflictive their best with what little they know, get told they’re basically a infliction, that they’re in the path, and incapable of coming up through any good ideas that support the undertaking.

This treatment of the “mean advocates” is unacceptable in my estimation. Us little people with tiny voices and a deficiency of experience put a lot of these rabble on point as our front men & women and those rabble accepted that responsibility. With that responsibleness should come the decency to behave toward us “little advocates” with patience and respect. If we don’t merit that at the very least…

Know what I think? Screw them. No any in this industry, any company or a different advocate tells me what I have power to and can’t do and not any of you should let them make mention of you either. Suggestions are great, intelligence is amazing, but if they propel you down and make you be impressed like a fool, fuck them. Find someone/somebody else to put your support in and don’t hindrance it defeat your purpose!

If your message is STRONG, if it can exist backed up by evidence and you are prepared to shield your message, then go for it! Either folks will pay attention or they won’t. Do NOT put to hire anyone in this community tell you that your THOUGHTS or IDEAS or EFFORTS to save this product are ‘not competent enough”. 


Kevin: I command do what Dr. Farsalinos said superior to, at any cost, including questioning probity.

VMS: In the last 6 months I bring forth watched many people change their stance forward what to fight and what not to take arms. 3 months ago, letting companies know that we thought their kid kind-hearted logos were bad, was a GOOD form and was ENCOURAGED. Now? It’s “who cares?” “this is every adult product being sold to adults in each adult store.” Funny that on this account that 3 months ago that’s not that which I was hearing. Reminder, the ANTZ are after what is stated attacking child friendly branding, it is placid a problem and it is common that our community CAN CHANGE. Put your coin where your mouth is. Tell these companies you don’t like their branding, for what cause you don’t approve of it, and therefore endeavor to buy products from other companies who clearly care concerning protecting this product.

It’s the like thing with the Diacetyl and AP issues. Here in the UK and Canada, measures were taken to change place products from sale that contained levels that were deemed perilous, yet the US has kind of reasonable ignored it.  This is some other incident where I read that we should rightful be quiet about it and put to hire other people deal with it in in personal and away from the public. Erm. No.

If a circle is playing Russian Roulette with my hale condition, I am not going to rest here and let them get gone with it while I’m told to close up and let other more practised people deal with it…behind closed doors in which place we (the public) have no archetype what’s being done to set right theses issues! Uh uh. Not happening. Same viewed like above, tell a company you don’t like their discriminative characteristic results and move to a reproach. that has results YOU are lucky with.

Kevin: I also rely upon this:


VMS: One voice may have ~ing small and quiet, but when we incite all our voices together, we be converted into loud and thunderous.

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